Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

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Expand view Topic review: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by John Bowen » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:48 am

Zahush76 wrote:So just to clarify - the purpose of the second cable (or double, if a converter is needed) going out of the interface and back into the Solaris is to slave it to the DAW\Interface sample rate?
Yes, that's correct.

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by Zahush76 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:23 am

So just to clarify - the purpose of the second cable (or double, if a converter is needed) going out of the interface and back into the Solaris is to slave it to the DAW\Interface sample rate?

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by John Bowen » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:41 am

Well, to go both into and out of the Solaris, you obviously need 2 optical cables. If you can set your interface to 'speak' S/PDIF, as it seems to say, then that would be all you should need - no extra converters needed.
If you want to convert the Solaris output to coaxial, and send a coaxial signal back to the Solaris, then yes, you need the same 2 optical cables, plus 2 converters, each with a coax cable.

So, 4 cables and 2 converters that way (although there are dual converter boxes you can get, that handle both directions in one package, so 1 dual converter).

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by Zahush76 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:28 am

John Bowen wrote:Yes, so, hmmm, that looks potentially workable. If you get a pair of Toslink cables (optical cables), just try it.
Ok. So i bring back my previous question: Do i need two cables to make this work? One from the solaris spdif out to the DI of the interface (for transfering the audio) - and another cable from the interface DO to the solaris spdif in (for slaving the solaris to the interface sample rate & clock)?
Same for a scenrio of using the spdif - to converter - to coaxial? Will i need 4 cables and 2 converters? One direction out of the solaris and the other into the solaris?

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by John Bowen » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:01 am

Yes, so, hmmm, that looks potentially workable. If you get a pair of Toslink cables (optical cables), just try it.

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by Zahush76 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:46 am

John Bowen wrote:Hmmm, I think we need another person to comment, since I don't have the experience with ADAT multichannel signals.
Your user manual seems to indicate that the rectangular jacks can receive and send either the ADAT format OR a stereo S/PDIF signal, and will know the difference and work accordingly. I was under the impression that you can't do this. Anyone else have a comment?
I looked further,and found this. It's the virtual mixer of the user interface:

Image

You can see to the upper far right side, the beginning of the TOSLINK \ ADAT section.
As you can see, it has two virtual buttons saying "TOS IN" and "TOS OUT".
The manual says:
TOS IN Button
Alternates between TOS and ADAT format on the optical
inputs.
TOS OUT Button
Alternates between TOS and ADAT format on the optical
outputs.
So maybe there's a chance.

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by John Bowen » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:41 am

Hmmm, I think we need another person to comment, since I don't have the experience with ADAT multichannel signals.
Your user manual seems to indicate that the rectangular jacks can receive and send either the ADAT format OR a stereo S/PDIF signal, and will know the difference and work accordingly. I was under the impression that you can't do this. Anyone else have a comment?

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by Zahush76 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:33 am

John Bowen wrote:Zahush76,
The DI and DO jacks you have are also JIS F05 connectors, but because it states 'ADAT/TOS' next to the connectors, I'm assuming these DI and DO are for ADAT light pipe signals, which are not compatible with S/PDIF signals. See this quote from Wikipedia:

"Other terms are sometimes used for technology similar to TOSLINK, such as ADAT Lightpipe or simply ADAT Optical. These are most often seen in the professional music/audio industry. While the ADAT Lightpipe format uses the same JIS F05 connectors as TOSLINK, the ADAT Lightpipe data format is not compatible with S/PDIF."
I looked again in the user manual of my user interface, and the description of these rectangular white and grey DI \ DO is:
DI/DO – ADAT/TOS In/Out
Optical S/PDIF or ADAT for up to 8 channels of digital
I/O, depending on format and sample rate.
Does that change the picture? It says Optical S\PDIF or ADAT, and you figured it isn't compatible with S\PIDF.

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by Zahush76 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:23 am

John Bowen wrote:Yes, exactly...I guess I should be using the term 'coaxial' instead of 'RCA type' :-)

These boxes should be cheaper, since they don't need a DAC inside.
Ok. But still - will i need a second converter (i.e. to send a cable from my interface digital out, thru the converter - and into the Solaris' digital in if i want to slave it)?

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by John Bowen » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:19 am

Yes, exactly...I guess I should be using the term 'coaxial' instead of 'RCA type' :-)

These boxes should be cheaper, since they don't need a DAC inside.

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by Zahush76 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:18 am

John Bowen wrote:Let's address each question separately:

So, the converter in the second photo is NOT what you want! You need a box that simply takes the digital data stream as Toslink for input, and uses the RCA jack for the digital output.
I see.
Something like this then?

Image

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by John Bowen » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:14 am

Zahush76 wrote:
As to the comment from lotus-eater...you can get the Solaris to output 96kHz output if you slave it from a 96kHz Master clock. Just connect a 96kHz signal to the S/PDIF Input on the Solaris, and there you have it!
I can set my projects in cubase to 96khz & 32 bit float. I see that it changes the sample rate on my interface. Is the Solaris supposed to output 96khz all by it self - just from connecting it with the configuration mentioned above (spdif to converter to rca)? Or is there another connection needed? Maybe additional settings? In other words - what do i have to do in order to slave it to my cubase's sample rate (or to the interface which is slaved to cubase?)?
The Solaris doesn't have a parameter anywhere that sets the S/PDIF clock rate, and no screen to show you what the current situation is (I'll see if we can add something to the System page as a report at least). It normally outputs S/PDIF at the rate of 48kHz. This is built into the chips being used, and is what you will get from the S/PDIF Output of the Solaris when used by itself. However, if you attach a signal to the S/PDIF Input, the Solaris will note this and start to sync to the incoming clock rate, and also use that for its digital output rate as well. What we did to test this at Sonic Core was to use the Solaris in between 2 Scope DSP systems:

Scope1 --> Solaris --> Scope2

Scope1 was set to run at 48kHz, then 96kHz. We couldn't see what the Solaris was doing, but the slaved Scope2 changed to 48kHz or 96kHz accordingly, so we are assuming that the Solaris was slaving to Scope1, since that was the only way Scope2 would get the change of the clock rate.

I've noted that on the Forum Wouter says that he is trying to run it at 44.1, but is not seeing the correct clock rate out of the Solaris. I have to check again with the engineer to see if there is anything else that could be going on in the setup to affect things.

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by John Bowen » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:59 am

Let's address each question separately:

So, even more confusion, thanks to the use of the RCA-style jacks for digital signals in the case of your interface shown in the first photo at the start of this topic, and as analog outputs in the case of your second photo. They use the same jack, but the signals are different.

In your top photo, you have the abbreviation DO and DI, which is Digital Out and Digital In. Here the entire stereo signal rides on one connector, and you are sending a digital signal (serial data steam). In the other onto, you have the typical analog Left & Right outputs, so that box is converting the stereo digital signal (coming in via either the toslink or RCA connector) and being converted to analog stereo outs.

So, the converter in the second photo is NOT what you want! You need a box that simply takes the digital data stream as Toslink for input, and uses the RCA jack for the digital output.

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by Zahush76 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:44 am

John Bowen wrote:Zahush76,
So, there are 2 types of S/PDIF connectors. The red and white you see on your box are often called 'RCA connectors'. the other type is with optical connectors, usually called TOSLINK (for Toshiba Link), and these send the digital signal via light, and are often thought to be better than the RCA wire connectors...but both will transmit high quality digital data. So, what Jimmy is pointing out is that you will need to purchase a small box that converts optical TOSLINK output to RCA output; then you can use the Solaris S/PDIF with your interface. (The TOSLINK connectors, also known as EIAJ optical, are rectangular jacks also known as JIS F05 connectors.)

The DI and DO jacks you have are also JIS F05 connectors, but because it states 'ADAT/TOS' next to the connectors, I'm assuming these DI and DO are for ADAT light pipe signals, which are not compatible with S/PDIF signals. See this quote from Wikipedia:

"Other terms are sometimes used for technology similar to TOSLINK, such as ADAT Lightpipe or simply ADAT Optical. These are most often seen in the professional music/audio industry. While the ADAT Lightpipe format uses the same JIS F05 connectors as TOSLINK, the ADAT Lightpipe data format is not compatible with S/PDIF."

Because the S/PDIF standard is included in the SHARC dsp that we use in Solaris, that is the digital interface we chose.
Ok,still a bit confused. I understand i got to get something like this, right?

Image

What confuses me a bit is the fact that it has one optical input - but two rca outputs (red & white). Does this mean i'm sending one cable from the Solaris to the converter box, and two rca cables from the converter to my interface?
Also, the rca output on the pic above says "left\right" - while the RCA input on my interface says DI\DO (digital in & out). These are different functions. Am i suppose to consider them as sort of stereo left right - or digital in and out...?
As to the comment from lotus-eater...you can get the Solaris to output 96kHz output if you slave it from a 96kHz Master clock. Just connect a 96kHz signal to the S/PDIF Input on the Solaris, and there you have it!
I can set my projects in cubase to 96khz & 32 bit float. I see that it changes the sample rate on my interface. Is the Solaris supposed to output 96khz all by it self - just from connecting it with the configuration mentioned above (spdif to converter to rca)? Or is there another connection needed? Maybe additional settings? In other words - what do i have to do in order to slave it to my cubase's sample rate (or to the interface which is slaved to cubase?)?

p.s.
What's the difference (if any) between saying that the audio output of the Solaris is (or could be 96khz) - and between saying that all the internal proccessing (including modulation speeds etc) is done in 96khz? Are these the same thing? Related\connected?
If the Solaris is slaved to, say, cubase which is set to 44khz - will all the internal proccessing in the Solaris suddenly turn to 44khz?

Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

by scope4live » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:52 pm

Zahush76 wrote: Speaking of the Fatness of the solaris - i noticed you stopped makind those wonderful audio snippets on soundcloud. Still waiting for those 50 presets you made :-)
You're killing me mang... :oops:
I am drowning in Modular synth modules I am MASTERBETA testing, and trying to validate the conversion of the SE-1X into a Modular synth ( 2 years of work) so I forgot my duties to my fellow Solaritites. Please forgive me, Monday night-Tuesday I can do the explanations and record some more.
Thanks for reminding me...

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